During the Tournament of Power, Vegeta's identity was put to the test; after Goku had awakened the powers of Ultra Instinct, Vegeta tried his hardest to follow in Goku's footsteps, going as far as to take on Jiren alone despite knowing that the Universe 11 warrior could easily toss him aside like trash. Really, Goku doesn't care at all about coming home to be there for his family. Goku wants a rematch with Vegeta. For most of the original series, Goku actively hates Vegeta. Goku’s losses against Vegeta don’t bother him, though, mainly because he doesn’t see Vegeta as a rival at all. In the Majin Buu Saga, Goku reveals that Super Saiyan 3 is a transformation that he has long possessed. To Goku, Bardock is a concept- the father he could have had if he was raised by the barbaric Saiyans. Throughout the first two arcs of Dragon Ball Z, Vegeta regularly states how Goku is a low-class warrior while he himself is a super elite warrior class. Even if you aren’t familiar with the series, it’s quite obvious that Vegeta’s disdain towards Goku stems from the fact that he has never beaten the lower class Saiyan in a fair fight. By the second arc, he’s been properly schooled by Master Roshi and never really does or says anything to imply a severe lack of intelligence. Beerus straight up defeats him; Freeza uses a sneak attack to end his fight with Goku; Goku forfeits his fight with Hit; Goku needs to fuse to beat Zamasu (and doesn’t even win;) and Goku’s Ultra Instinct runs out before he can deal the finishing blow on Jiren, needing to team up with Freeza and 17 to secure a victory. I'm gonna need some citation on that. Topic Archived; First; Previous; Page . saiyanwarrior. After all, he barely spends any time with his sons. Even Vegeta was stronger when they first met. For a character deemed so simple, far too many fans miss just how complex Goku really is. User Info: aton_ra. This isn’t to say he doesn’t train hard- he constantly does- but that Goku knows himself well enough to understand that pushing himself too far is torture. In the Saiyan arc, Goku struggles with the revelation that he was a Saiyan all along, rejecting the notion until he finally has to accept it before fighting Freeza. Kind of. During the Cell arc, Goku generally knocks Vegeta down quite a bit by going so far to say that Vegeta doesn’t even compare to his own power. Goku is a fine dad. 10 TOTALLY DIFFERENT: THEIR TRAINING Vegeta stayed behind Goku for a long time because he simply didn’t have the training that Goku does. Super likes to push this idea that Goku has been a mean spirited and selfish idiot all along. Throughout DB & Z, there were numerous instances of him having an ethical basis behind his decisions. When Vegeta arrived on Earth with intent of obtaining the Dragon Balls and destroying the planet, Bulma watched him battle the Z Fighters, including when her then boyfriend, Yamcha, died and Vegeta mocked him by calling him trash. Even though Goku basically codified the “dumb, but strong” Shonen protagonist archetype, he doesn’t actually fit the mold himself. In the case of the latter, fans are finally getting a dub that portrays Goku accurately. Sounds right, doesn’t it? If Goku had not trained, Vegeta would of won. Goku tries to persuade Vegeta to stop when Majin Buu is resurrected but Vegeta says he doesn't care if Bulma and Trunks are killed, but Goku deduces Vegeta is lying. This was never the problem, though. Goku wants a rematch with Vegeta. Also correct me if I'm wrong but it was my assumption that SSB+Kaio Ken was the strongest form we've seen (aside from Vegito Blue, but since he's a fusion he doesn't count as personal strength). It was a low blow. On Namek. For whatever reason, fans have accepted this idea that Goku’s arc is complete by the start of the Saiyan arc, but this couldn’t be further from the truth. All one needs is a genuine passion for martial arts to be strong. Piccolo, Gohan, and Vegeta might have better arcs in terms of emotional impact, but Goku’s development starts with him meeting Bulma and doesn’t end until he flies off with Uub, encompassing the entire original series. Considering popularity polls at the time showed Gohan as the most popular character, this just isn’t true. And we are talking about children older as Name Gohan and similar to OG DB Goku. Considering just how overwhelmingly powerful Goku is, it’s funny to look back and realize that he’s naturally weaker than most of the main cast. He doesn’t push his body any further than he needs to. The concept of having a wife and children is novel to him since his main goal in life is to become stronger than Goku. There are two major fighting points regarding Goku at the moment: he’s either out of character in Super or in character for the first time for the western audience. He’s not like Superman; he’s not a superhero. Bardock is finally someone Goku could be proud of. Yamcha is widely considered to be Goku’s first real rival. Now Hit could be the new rival. Given how obsessed Goku is with his hobby, I'm pretty sure he values that more. 2,913. All the latest gaming news, game reviews and trailers, Assassin’s Creed Valhalla: A Guide To All Of The Light Shields, 25 Things Everyone Gets Wrong About Goku In Dragon Ball, Mass Effect: Everything You Didn't Know About The Krogan. This is the father of modern Shonen and it has a bit more tact. If hes going to blunder that hard when it comes time, then he couldn't be bothered. No one can deny that he works himself hard, but some fans do see this as a natural penchant for martial arts to the point where all of Goku’s accomplishment can be undermined by his role as a “prodigy.”. It’s constantly changing, too. On that note, Goku isn’t a bad husband either. He got to kick the everloving shit out of a stronger version of Goku. Kaioken obviously makes Goku much stronger. *very light spoilers* User Info: INCEPTlON. Who does Frieza hate more? Covering the hottest movie and TV topics that fans want. Master Roshi is stronger in the first two arcs while Grandpa Gohan is stronger in the Red Ribbon Army arc; Tien Shinhan is stronger in the 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai while Kami and Mr. Popo are stronger in the King Piccolo arc; Vegeta is stronger in the Saiyan arc while Gohan ends up stronger in both the Cell and Buu arcs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Be8vE-Spb8. So much tact, in fact, that Goku loses way more than he wins. The second time they fought, the fight came to a stalemate. Vegeta thinks that as well as Goku not being strict towards Saiyan tradition as very nauseating. Xandalan . In resurrection of F, he admits that he needs Goku to continue to get stronger. That’s a bit wrong, though. Ever since Goku hit the Super Saiyan mark, he has never looked back. For most of the original series, Goku actively hates Vegeta. Both were sent to Earth as babies; both are pure of heart; and both fight for what’s right. He really does love Chichi even if newer material in the series pushes this idea that they’ve never kissed (one of Super’s weirder gags, honestly.) So hard, in fact, many fans believe that he’s entitled to a stronger or higher status than Goku. Goku or Vegeta? He knew the entire time. Both Vegeta and Goku have encountered evil duplicates of themselves, such as Goku Black or Copy Vegeta. Goku has NOT always been just some idiot who only cares about fighting, with his heroic deeds mainly being incidental. I think he still cares, he just isn't as vocal about it anymore. The problem is that he isn’t alive all that often. Saiyans have a pretty strong reputation as being nothing more than gym rats who only care about training, growing stronger, and testing their power. Goku has developed his own style of fighting based of the dozens of martial artists he’s met through the years. Goku the bad father is a notion that transcends its series, persisting as one of the more popular anime memes of all time. He’s a selfish, albeit kind, man who is driven by his own desires above all else. It’s a story and an arc that comes full circle. We can't have a character screaming about the same thing for 20 years or we'd have another Scorpion. Vegeta's win rate is better by this point. The scenes where they fight over food I think actually show Beerus willing to be generous and kind, because Goku and Vegeta literally can't stop him from simply taking the food. While he never went so far as to deny helping anyone or actively harm another life, Goku never went out of his way to do the right thing either. He was furious when Rafitz took Gohan at the beginning of Z, so much so that he sacrificed his life to take down his own brother so he didn’t hurt anyone anymore. Rather, their whole rivalry revolves around the fact that Vegeta feels like he personally couldn’t keep up with Goku when he, by all accounts, should have defeated him easily. EDIT: I meant when both are in SSB form. Although Goku is one of four characters in the series who fuses more than once, (the others being Vegeta, Goten, and Trunks,) he isn’t a fan of it like his son is. The go-to source for comic book and superhero movie fans. Sadly, for Vegeta, this has been the one thing he has failed at time and again, which of course, just makes him loathe his fellow Saiyan Goku … I think it should have a more healthy ratio. Goku loves Chichi in a way only Goku could. Goku even says this to Vegeta outright during the Cell arc. This is how life works, honestly. Vegeta is not a family man. Not only does Goku have a character arc that spans the entire series, it’s utterly massive in length. He isn’t around often, but he always shows up to steal the win against the arc villain. “Goku develops in the original Dragon Ball” is a sentiment you hear quite a lot within the fandom. For more casual fans of the series, it’s easy to see Goku as a rather formulaic protagonist. Goku absolutely cares about Gohan, no doubt at all. discord.gg/dbz, Press J to jump to the feed. He is the son of King Vegeta, the Baby Daddy of Bulma, and the father of Trunks. Right up there with “Toriyama wanted to end the series with Piccolo/Freeza/Cell,” one of the series’ more persistent rumors is the idea that Toriyama was forced to bring back Goku as the main character because fans didn’t like Gohan. Well, not really. Goku’s win-loss ratio has gotten so bad in recent years that he doesn’t so much as defeat a single arc villain in Dragon Ball Super. Vegeta prepares to destroy himself in an attempt to kill Majin Buu. There are countless times when he ignored his family. In reality, it’s not until the very end of the Cell arc where Toriyama decided to pass the torch from Goku to Gohan. Every arc sees Goku finding new heights and overcoming his flaws. Come the Majin Buu arc, Goku is back in view before we ever get to the halfway point. Thanks to Funimation, much of the western fanbase has this idea of Goku where he is little more than a Superman analog. Rather, Goku has an active disdain for fusion. How do we know it's "significantly" stronger? Although Goku puts up decent fights, every arc villain ends up either winning against him or reaching a stalemate. Vegeta is killed in the blast, but Whis ends up keeping Goku & the rest of the supporting cast alive. So while Goku is still a driving force that keeps Vegeta motivated, is Vegeta himself the thing that must be beaten? Ask myself why Goku trained Gohan after all against Cell and not Tien Just look at the ending of Z. Vegeta and Goku demanded that Goten and Trunks go to the tourney because they slacked off in the peace time but during Super there was o peace after all. The rivalry between Goku and Vegeta focuses a lot on who does what better or worse than the other, but every now and then, we have to acknowledge moments where they are truly equal, and this is one of those times. By turning back time, Whis gives Goku the chance to make things … Goku trains smart, not hard. When he was asking if that was the end of Goku, he seemed more concerned for Goku rather than his own hide . Goku’s fight against Frieza is just a slog, but Vegeta’s does have a cathartic factor to it. Unfortunately, Funimation either did not understand Goku or particularly care for his original characterization. Which does kind of undermine Yamcha’s role as a rival. This goes double for when he’s an adult. He’s a good man with mixed priorities, but that’s what makes him compelling. He does want to be stronger than him though. Goku alone with a single Kamehameha however did damage him. Despite the fact that others may be put in danger because of this, Goku wants Vegeta to be spared. When he is alive, Goku spends A LOT of time with his sons. Already exhausted, Vegeta lays into Frieza with minimal effort. Goku brings up Chichi with the frequency of a man who genuinely loves and cares about his wife. It’s not until Goku begins training with Master Roshi where Goku finally gets a motivation: the desire to meet strong opponents. While kid Goku is incredibly charming in his own right, he’s a bit flat as a character starting out. Rather, the issue is that Goku has never cared about Bardock. Even with Kaioken, he could not subdue Vegeta. The closest I've seen Vegeta and Goku being friends is at the end of the Buu saga when they both give each other a thumbs-up. But previously Vegeta almost made sure he was the only saiyan left alive. Why? I honestly think he's silently waiting to get strong enough to kick Beerus' ass after all the blatant disrespect. While Goku is the classic pure hearted hero, Vegeta is more interesting. Goku’s signature ability is his ability to adapt and learn. vegeta is weaker because vegeta had to become majin so he can beat goku. C. Goku refuses to use his Saiyan name. No amount of retcons can fix that. (REVENGE!!!). For as amazing as Goku’s final fight with Piccolo Junior at the end of the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai is, many fans don’t take kindly to Goku learning to fly at the very last minute in order to defeat Piccolo. And this was before he used Kaio Ken. Time and time again, Goku finds himself outclassed by other characters. Vegeta has been in a constant state of not just trying to surpass Goku but to just meet him as an equal in the field. During their first battle, Goku straight up lost. Freeza is a prodigy. After Goku let Vegeta retreat, Bulma was not pleased but found solace that Yamcha and the others who died can be resurrected by the Namek Dragon Balls. The idea of Goku as the strongest character mainly comes from the anime embellishing his power during the Buu arc to make the final battle a bit more traditional. And he's willing to "play" with Goku and Vegeta. This is a surface level reading, though. In the Buu arc, Goku realizes he won’t be around forever and actively struggles with the concept of responsibility. Even though Goku is clearly stronger, Krillin is able to catch up and put up a far better fight than Yamcha ever did. Goku has no idea that Vegeta will eventually switch sides, and he doesn't care. Even then, though, class means nothing and Goku proves that. Going through old fan forums from before the series gained notoriety here in the west shows a rather consistent analysis of Goku: he’s kind, selfish, and loves fighting above all else. The concept of having a wife and children is novel to him since his main goal in life is to become stronger than Goku. But you'll never see him waking down the beach hand in hand with Bulma. INCEPTlON 3 years ago #1. There are countless times when he ignored his family. New Dragon Ball Z: Kakarot Trailer is All About Vegeta and Goku. In the latter, Goku is the legendary Super Saiyan. Except that’s not true at all. Discussion. It happens often enough in other Shonen. Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube. Mainly because their rivalry isn’t built on the idea that Vegeta has ever explicitly lost to Goku. As a result- and by virtue of being another of Roshi’s initial students- Krillin is Goku’s first rival, not Yamcha. So while Goku is still a driving force that keeps Vegeta motivated, is Vegeta himself the thing that must be beaten? Anyone familiar with martial arts, though, will understand why Goku is stronger. On Namek. The fact Goku is so strong is a testament to his ability to train his body and actively seek greater heights. Looks to me like he is more interested in discovering how strong he can become then smashing that plateau. In fact, we have Toriyama on record stating that Goku was simply a better fit for the style of story he was trying to tell. He is a man who came from nothing and rose to the strongest mortal in all of universe 7. In the former, there’s no one left to contest Goku but Piccolo, an opponent he has defeated fair and square. Not because he … Bulma has gotten away with far too much for him not to. For years, fans have wanted Goku to meet Bardock in the afterlife. Maybe now Vegeta cares. One constant that has remained throughout much of the Dragon Ball anime is that Goku is always one step ahead of Vegeta when it comes to overall strength. of 5; You're browsing the GameFAQs Message Boards as a guest. Gohan is a prodigy. At its core, Dragon Ball is the story of Son Goku. Pretty sure he does. So long as the series continues, so will Goku’s character arc. After all, Vegeta is always shown training whereas Goku generally takes a more relaxed approach. Does Vegeta even care about beating Goku anymore? Going into the revival, although the two are equal, Goku sees Vegeta more as a friend than anything. As is, he’s genuinely the low class warrior Raditz said he was. Funimation has done so much damage to his character, that the Western Goku completely clouds the actual Goku. Vegeta does not fight opponents who sandbag as he regards it as spitting on his honour. From fighting the Red Ribbon Army to flying off with Uub, all Goku wants is a life full of excitement through combat. You learn from others and you adapt. He explicitly states that he doesn’t care about Vegeta when he decides to finally accept his Saiyan heritage. No he isn't. Well, not quite. Looks to me like he is more interested in discovering how strong he can become then smashing that plateau. "Needless prominence" oh lol please rewatch Z. I've figured Beerus is his rival of sorts. Like the other answer said, Goku doesn’t view relationships the same way as everyone else. He clearly didn't want to hurt Kinto'un's feelings. While he’s certainly uneducated, Goku’s lack of intelligence stops there. 11 VEGETA HAS LEARNED USEFUL SKILLS BESIDES FIGHTING. Come Super, Goku’s win-loss rate has honestly never been worse. Goku easily has the largest roster of techniques in the series and most fans attest that this is because Goku “steals” techniques. Does vegeta care for gohan. Jiren has always had an incredible advantage. He’s the only member of the main cast along with Pu’er to not develop during that first arc. Vegeta and Trunks combined couldn't damage Merged Zamasu. Vegeta is a prodigy. Even then, Goku is very much the main character of the series up until the Cell Games, actively driving the plot. She’s even the last person he thinks of when he believes he’s lost against Beerus. He’s not the best, but he’s not bad either. Dragon Ball - General This is a split board - You can return to the Split List for other boards. Characters like Piccolo and gives him a Senzu just because he wants to fight.... 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